>>> WE WELCOME YOU TO DONNYBROOK NEXT UP.

JOINING US TODAY IS FORMER BUSINESSESMAN, CONVICTED FELON AND NOW AN AUTHORITY, SHANE HAYES.

THE BOOK IS "THE GRAY CHOICE".

>> HOW ARE YOU?

>> GREAT.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> BOOK SELLERS ACROSS THE NATION HAVE RACKS AND RACKS OF BOOKS WHO HAVE FALLEN FROM GREAT HEIGHTS AND THEY ARE MET WITH CYNICISM ON THE PART OF THE PUBLIC.

IF SOMEONE IS LOOKING AT THE BOOK OR WATCHING THE PROGRAM TONIGHT AND THEY ARE CYNICAL ABOUT THE REASON BEHIND THE BOOK, OR HOW CAN SOMEONE CHANGE THAT MUCH?

WHAT WOULD -- HOW WOULD YOU ADDRESS THAT CYNICISM?

>> I HAD A VERY SUCCESSFUL CAREER FOR 30 YEARS BEFORE I COMMITTED A CRIME.

THERE'S THAT PART OF THE BOOK.

AND IT HAS THE CRIME IN IT.

>> I AM LOOKING FOR AN ENTREPRENEUR OR STARTING OUT, AND SAY, THESE ARE THINGS I SHOULD DO AND SHOULDN'T DO.

IT IS AN ETHICAL SOCIETY, AND NOW -- PAID A 200 MILLION DOLLAR FINE FOR CHEATING.

MY EX-WIFE IS CYNICAL ABOUT IT.

IF I CAN HELP ONE PERSON, THEN I HAVE ACCOMPLISHED BY GOAL.

THAT'S WHAT I TRYING TO DO.

>> SO THE VIEWERS DON'T GET THE IDEA THAT IT WAS A VICTIMLESS CRIME.

THE TAXPAYERS WERE ON THE HOOK FOR MILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND 5 MILLION DOLLARS AND THE SHAREHOLDERS LOST MONEY.

YOUR SENTENCING IN 2018, THE U.S. ATTORNEY BROUGHT UP THAT SOME LONG-TIME EMPLOYEES OF THE BANK, I THINK IT WAS EXCEL, HAD LOST THEIR RETIREMENT FUNDS.

SOMEONE WENT FROM 156 THOUSAND TO 12 HUNDRED.

ASSUMING THOSE PEOPLE ARE NOT BUYING YOUR BOOK, MAYBE THEY ARE WATCHING THE SHOW, WHAT MESSAGE DO YOU HAVE FOR THOSE WHO LOST THEIR RETIREMENT FUNDS?

>> I'M SORRY AND REMORSEFUREMORSEFUL.

THE CRIME WAS AT ONE.

YOU PUT THREE BANKS TOGETHER.

>> THREE BANKS WENT DOWN.

>> I WON'T DEBATE THAT WITH YOU.

THE TWO WERE GOING DOWN BEFORE I GOT THERE AND HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CRIME.

THE ONE I COMMITTED THE CRIME AND TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR, EXCEL, I LOST ABOUT 10 MILLION DOLLARS THERE.

I CAN FEEL WHAT THOSE SHAREHOLDERS FEEL.

I FEEL HORRIBLE FOR WHAT HAPPENED.

AND MY CRIME WAS ONE OF HAVING HAD SO MUCH SUCCESS, I THOUGHT I'M NOT TAKING MONEY.

IF I CAN JUST DO THE TECHNICAL THINGS, WHICH WERE ILLEGAL, CAN I BUY MYSELF TIME TO FIX THE PROBLEM.

AND I DIDN'T.

AND I FEEL HORRIBLE ABOUT THAT.

I GOT AN E-MAIL FROM ONE OF THE FORMER EMPLOYEES LAST NIGHT THROUGH MY AUTHOR WEBSITE, IT WAS A TOUGH E-MAIL IN A LOT OF WAYS.

AND IT WAS ACTUALLY, I THINK WHAT I WOULD TAKE FROM IT, IT WAS SOMEONE OF A FORGIVENESS, NOW WHAT I HAVE SEEN WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU IN THE 15 YEARS IN MY MIND, BUT 5 OR 6, I CAN LET GO OF IT.

I'M TRYING TO MAKE GOOD ON IT AND TRYING TO GET PEOPLE NOT THE HURT PEOPLE.

>> IT WAS NOT A SINGLE CRIME.

THERE WERE A SERIES OF BAD LOANS.

FRIENDS OF SHAUN LOANS, THEY CALLED IT.

>> IT IS CONCENTRATED IN MY CO-DEFENDANT.

AND THE DAMAGE IS HORRIFIC.

I PAY FOR THAT EVERY DAY, MENTALLY, I PAY FOR IT MONTHLY WITH MONEY.

AND YOU KNOW, IT IS HARD.

IT IS HARDEST ON MY CHILDREN.

BECAUSE MY POOR DECISIONS, MY CRIME, HAS EFFECTED THEM AND I WENT FROM BEING FATHER OF THE YEAR IN THEIR MIND TO I HAVE 5 AND SOME DON'T WANT TO SPEAK TO ME.

AND SOME DO.

AND SO, I CAN RELATE TO WHAT I HAVE DONE TO PEOPLE AND IT HURTS ME AT NIGHT.

TRUST ME.

>> TAKE US BACK, WHAT YOU SAID, WHAT WAS SO UNUSUAL ABOUT THE CRIMES THAT WE HAVE ALL READ ABOUT, IT WAS AFTER YOU SOLD ALLEGIANT FOR HALF A BILLION DOLLARS.

IS THAT INTOXATING WALKING THE LINE, BEFORE YOU SOLD IT AND OPERATING IN THE AIR?

HOW DID THAT IMPACT, THAT KIND OF SUCCESS, THAT KIND OF FINANCIAL GAIN, HOW DID THAT IMPACT YOUR DECISION-MAKING?

>> THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

TWO ANSWERS TO THAT.

THE FIRST ONE, WHEN YOU ARE THAT SUCCESSFUL, WHEN YOU THINK YOU CAN DO NO WRONG AND YOU THINK THE LAW DOESN'T APPLY TO YOU.

I TALK ABOUT IN THE BOOK AND ANYBODY I TALK TO AND TALK ABOUT ETHICS.

WE FIRST THE ENVELOPE.

WE WOULD GO TO THE ATTORNEYS AND TELL US WHAT WE NEED TO DO.

IT WAS NEVER ILLEGAL.

WE DID THAT OVER AND OVER.

YOU WANT TO MAXIMIZE THE SHAREHOLDER VALUE.

WHENEVER I HAD THAT SUCCESS AND THEN WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT THE FAX THAT NATIONAL CITY FAILED.

I SOLD TO AND LOST 20 MILLION DOLLARS QUICKLY.

THAT WAS THE BEGINNING OF ME BECOMING DESPERATE.

I DID TWO THINGS WRONG; I CAUGHT A FALLING KNIFE, I THOUGHT I WAS SO SMART THAT I COULD FIX TRUMAN AND SONS SECURITY.

AND I THOUGHT WHAT I COULD DO AT EXCEL AND I FAILED AT THAT.

AND THE OTHER PART, I DIDN'T HAVE THOSE PEOPLE AROUND ME WE WOULD HAVE THE DISCUSSION OF WHERE IS THE LINE?

>> DID YOU HAVE THEM AT ONE POINT AND DISMISS THEM BECAUSE YOU HAVE ACHIEVED SO MUCH?

WHAT WAS THAT?

>> I GOT KILLED IN THE EARLY 2008.

I DIDN'T COMMIT A CRIME UNTIL 2009.

I WAS AT NATIONAL CITY WHEN I GOT KILLED.

THE FINANCIAL CRISIS THAT OCCURRED, YOU CAN ALL IT '88 '07.

COST ME 10 THOUSAND DOLLARS A MONTH FOR A WHILE.

I SAY THIS IN THE BOOK, I HAD A GORILLA WARFARE.

YOU SPEND FOUR YEARS IN A COMPANY WITH HTHOUSANDS OF PEOPLE -- I AM BLEEDING ON THIS SIDE AND DESPERATE.

I DIDN'T SPEND THE MONEY.

I HAD THE PEOPLE.

I AM GUILTY OF THAT.

I NEEDED TO SURROUND MYSELF WITH GOOD PEOPLE.

I DIDN'T DO THAT.

>> WE ARE SEEING THAT WITH POLITICAL PEOPLE.

PEOPLE KEEP THOSE BAD PEOPLE AROUND THEM WITH DISASTER CONSEQUENCES.

YOU ARE TALKING TO FUTURE SHAUN HAYES', AREN'T YOU?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

IF THE FIRST MONTH IN MY BANKING CAREER OUT OF COLLEGE, WE TOOK A TEST IN A ROOM OF TRAINEES.

HAVE YOU STOLE ANYTHING FROM THIS COMPANY?

AND I ANSWERED IT NO.

AND THE QUESTION RESONATED WHY WOULD THEY ASK ME THIS AND I RAISED MY HAND AND A LARGE COMPANY OUT OF CHICAGO TESTED US.

AND THE GENTLEMAN SAID THAT YOU ANSWERED THAT INCORRECTLY.

I SAID I JUST STARTED.

I HAVEN'T TAKEN ANYTHING HOME.

AND HE SAID YOU WILL.

WHERE WE ALL SEE IN THE PUBLIC FORM, YOU GO TO BUSINESS, YOU TAKE A PAD OF PAPER, A PENCIL.

A GUY SET ME UP ON A BLIND DATE AND WE WENT TO A GAME AND I PUT OUT 90 DOLLARS.

I HAD THIS DATE AND I SAW HIM PUT HIS CREDIT CARD OUT THERE AND HE TOOK MY 90 DOLLARS.

I HAVE NEVER FLOWN A PLANE.

WE WERE OUT ON BUSINESS AND WE WOULD GO OUT ALL OF THE TIME.

HE SAID YOU HAVE TO KNOW HOW TO DO THIS.

I FLEW IT AND I WAS TERRIFIED FOR A LOT OF REASONS THE BOOK WILL TELL YOU.

AND SHAUN, I NEED TO TAKE OVER.

IN ANOTHER 5 MINUTES, THEY WOULD HAVE SCRAMBLED JETS FROM THE MILITARY BECAUSE YOU WERE GOING OVER RESTRICTED AIR SPACE?

THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED TO ME.

IT IS NOT AN EXCUSE.

IT IS A FACT.

THAT IS WHAT HAPPENS TO POLITICIANS.

>> ONE OF THE QUOTES, "I HAVE NO REASON TO LOOK DOWN ON ANYONE ANY MORE.

MY JOURNEY HAS CHANGED ME.

WHOEVER THINGS THEY ARE MORE VIRTUEOUS IS LYING TO THEMSELVES".

I KNOW PEOPLE WHO ARE HONEST.

IF THEY FOUND A PURSE ON THE STREET, THEY WILL RETURN IT TO THE PERSON.

LET ALONE STEAL SOMETHING.

DO YOU NOT KNOW ANY HONEST PEOPLE?

YOU SAY THAT ANYBODY THAT THINKS THEY ARE BETTER ARE LYING TO THEMSELVES?

YOU KNOW?

>> I WILL TAKE YOU TO THE BIBLE?

ARE YOU WITHOUT SIN?

WE ARE NOT.

>> I KNOW PEOPLE WHO ARE PRIVILEGED AND VIRTUED ENOUGH THAT THEY WOULD NOT GET INVOLVED IN BANK FRAUD.

THEY WOULD NOT HAVE 160 MILLION DOLLARS GOING TO FDIC.

>> I KNOW, I WOULD SAY I KNOW SOME OF THE SAME PEOPLE.

BUT THEY SPEED.

MAYBE THEY DRINK TOO MUCH.

YOU -- >> YOU ARE LOOKING AT THE SAME THING?

>> I'M NOT SAYING IT IS THE SAME THING.

>> NO, BUT THERE A STUDY FROM A PROFESSION, GIVEN THE RIGHT SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES, ANY PERSON CAN COMMIT ANY CRIME.

YOU THINK ABOUT THAT LONG ENOUGH -- I HAVE READ YOU FOR 40 YEARS -- I DID SOMETHING HORRIBLE.

THAT'S NO DIFFERENT.

I DON'T SPEED ANYMORE.

I USE CRUISE CONTROL.

IT IS THE SAME PRINCIPLE.

IT IS A STEP AT A TIME.

>> WHEN IT COMES TO LEARNING THE LESSON.

WE UNDERSTAND THAT AS YOU SAID, WE ARE SO QUICK TO POINT OUT THE SPLINTER IN SOMEONE'S EYE WITHOUT SEEING IT IN OUR OWN EYE.

IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU ARE OFFERING IT AS AN EXPLANATION OF THE DEEDS.

I HAVE TO ASK, WHEN IT CAME TO RELEASE YOU FROM PRISON, YOU WERE RELEASED BECAUSE OF COVID-19.

I THOUGHT YOU WERE RELEASED BECAUSE OF COVID-19.

>> YOU ARE IN THE BUSINESS.

TO ME, NEVER WAS I EVER ASKED A QUESTION BY THE POST.

I DIDN'T GET OUT ONE SECOND EARLY FROM COVID-19.

THE ONLY BENEFIT I GOT FROM COVID-19, I DIDN'T HAVE TO STAY IN THE HALFWAY HOUSE.

I KNEW JULY 26, 2019, I WAS GETTING OUT ON MAY 5, 2020.

>> YOU WERE FOUND TO BE IN VIOLATION OF YOUR PROBATION.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO OUR VIEWERS WHAT THAT WAS ABOUT.

YOU SERVED AN ADDITIONAL 30 DAYS, CORRECT?

>> YES.

THAT'S WHY THE BOOK FINISHES THE WAY HE DOES.

I HAD 24 VIOLATIONS.

WHEN YOU ARE IN PRISON, EVERY MAN AND WOMAN WHO HAS IT, YOU HAVE CREDIT ISSUES AND THEY SAY TO PUT UP CASH AND GET A CREDIT CARDS.

THAT IS A VIOLATION.

EVERY TIME I CHARGED SOMETHING, IT WAS A VIOLATION.

I DO NOT DENY.

THAT IS 20 OF HAD 24.

THE 4 OF THEM.

>> THE ADULT DAYCARE CENTER?

>> NO, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO DO WITH THAT.

I WILL GO TO ANOTHER ONE.

IF YOU CALLED ME AND LEFT ME IS A VOICEMAIL, AND I COLLECTED A LOT OF MONEY IN MY LIFE AND YOU GET A PHONE NUMBER AND SOMEONE OWES YOU MONEY AND SOMEBODY LEFT ME A VOICEMAIL AND SAID I NEED MY MONEY.

IT SOUNDED LIKE I OWED SOMEONE MONEY.

>> I STARTED A BUSINESS WHEN I WAS IN PRISON.

YOU MAY THINK THAT IS ODD.

BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE STARTING BUSINESSES IN PRISON EVERY DAY.

I DIDN'T HAVE A CELL PHONE BUT THERE WERE PEOPLE THAT DID.

THAT'S A VIOLATION.

AND YOU USING YOUR DEBIT CARD.

IF I WANT TO USE A CREDIT CARD IN MY WALLET, I HAVE TO CALL MY PROBATION OFFICER.

THAT'S HOW STRICT THE RULES ARE.

>> LET ME RETURN ONE LAST TIME TO THE QUOTE ABOUT ANYBODY WHO THINKS THEY ARE BERT THAN SOMEBODY ELSE, MORE PRINCIPLES ARE LYING TO THEMSELVES.

IN 2014, WHEN YOU WERE ARRESTED FOR THE FAILURE TO PAY CHILD SUPPORT, AND YOU WERE NOT 91 THOUSAND DOLLARS IN THE HOLE.

AND YOU WERE LIVE BE IN A 6 BEDROOM HOME AND THE JUDGE SAID THAT YOU AVOIDED PAYING YOUR CHILD SUPPORT BY PUTTING 283 THOUSAND DOLLARS IN AN ACCOUNT WITHOUT YOUR NAME ON IT.

AND I THINK ABOUT ALL OF THE FRIENDS I HAVE HAD WHO HAVE GOTTEN DIVORCED AND WILLINGLY PAID THEIR CHILD SUPPORT BECAUSE IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

SHOULDN'T A FELLOW THINK THAT HE IS BETTER THAN YOU?

>> LET ME GIVE YOU FACTS THAT WERE NOT DISCUSSED.

FIRST IT WAS A BUSINESS ACCOUNT.

THERE HADN'T BEEN A HOUSE PAYMENT FOR OVER THREE YEARS.

I WENT FIVE YEARS WITHOUT MAKING A PAYMENT.

NUMBER THREE IS, WHEN I FIRST GOT DIVORCED, I DIDN'T HAVE ANY CHILD SUPPORT REQUIREMENT.

AND I PAID SEVERAL MILLION DOLLARS.

AND I WON'T GEAUX BLACK AND GOT GO INTO -- AND IN 2011, WHEN I DIDN'T HAVE THE MONEY FOR A LAWYER, I ALLOWED THEM TO CALL COLLEGE PAYMENTS CHILD SUPPORT.

UP TO THAT POINT, I PAID THE MONEY.

THAT GAVE ME THE LEVERAGE TO INCARCERATE ME.

MY ATTORNEY WAS NOT THE RIGHT ATTORNEY.

I WAS LIMPING ALONG TRYING TO PAY IT.

NOT THAT IT MAKES ME RIGHT.

ON THE SCALE OF VIRTUE, IT IS NOT ON THE SCALE.

WHEN THINGS ARE WRITTEN IN THE PAPER, IT HELPS TO TALK ABOUT BOTH SIDES.

>> THE REPORTER WHO WROTE THAT STORY DID TALK TO THE JUDGE, JUDGE BEACH, WHO IS THE FELLOW WHO PUT YOU IN JAIL.

>> YOU SAID FRONT NET BANK.

I NEVER LIVED THERE A DAY IN MY LIFE.

>> NO, YOU WERE ARRESTED.

>> IF YOU LOOK, THE ARTICLE -- I WAS IN THE PANERPANERA.

IT IS ON THE INTERNET.

WHEN YOU GOOGLE ME, THAT'S ONE THING THAT COMES UP.

I NEVER LIVED THERE.

>> YOU LIVED ON FOUR DICE LANE.

>> BUT IT WAS A MUG SHOT FROM THERE?

>> YES, MA'AM.

>> THAT ACCOUNTS FOR SOME OF THE CONFUSION.

>> WHEN IT COMES TO THE PROCEEDS FROM THE BOOK, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH THAT?

>> I DON'T EXPECT THERE ARE PROCEEDS.

AT 250 COPIES IS WHAT MOST NONFICTION, 95 PERCENT.

I HAVE WAY MORE MONEY THAN THAT IN IT.

WHAT I HOPE HAPPENS THAT I END UP, MY SPEAKING CAREER GETS BETTER AND I PAY RESTITUTION EVERY MONTH.

AND I PAY BACK CREDITORS AND FEDERAL AND STATE INCOME TAXES.

IF YOU WENT DOWN THE LIST WITH ME, YOU WOULD SAY WOW.

AND ALL OF A SUDDEN, YOU WOULD SAY, I'M MORE THAN HAVING CHASE DEBTORS BEFORE, I PAY A HIGHER PERCENTAGE THAN ANY HUMAN.

I DID IT MYSELF.

>> IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU ARE COMPLAINING.

>> THE RESTITUTION, THEY GOT YOU FOR 5 MILLION?

>> IN LIGHT OF 160 MILLION TO THE FDIC.

IT DOESN'T SEEM TOO EXCESSIVE?

>> I DON'T DEBATE THAT.

I DON'T DEBATE THAT.

THE STATE OF MISSOURI GETS 25 PERCENT.

I LIVE ALONE.

THE IRS GETS 10 PERCENT AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT GETS 10 PERCENT.

AND I PAY INCOME TAXES BEFORE YOU GET TO THAT.

I'M NOT COMPLAINING.

I AM TRYING TO BE UP FRONT AND HONEST.

WE APPRECIATE THAT HONESTY.

>> WHEN IT COMES TO THE SPEAKERS CIRCUIT, THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO ARE GOING TO MEET YOU WITH ANGER.

ARE YOU READY FOR THAT?

>> I EXPECT THAT.

I HAVE BEEN THE UNDER DOG ALL OF MY LIFE.

>> DID THIS START WHEN YOU WERE YOUNG?

I MEAN, WAS -- I AM NOT TRYING TO PLAY ARMCHAIR THERAPIST.

EVERY CRIMINAL HAS A STORY WHERE THE SEEDS ARE SEWN AND HOW THEY WENT ABOUT DOING THAT.

>> I WAS EVERYTHING IN ATHLETE, PRESIDENT STUDENT BODY.

I WAS NEVER ARRESTED IN MY LIFE.

THE FIRST TIME WAS IN FRONTE FRONTEN FRONTENAC.

IF YOU HAVE TO PROVE A POINT AND I SUFFERED A HORRIFIC LOSS, AND IT GOES BACK TO THE STUDY, PEOPLE WILL DO THINGS YOU DIDN'T THINK YOU WOULD DO.

I'M NOT TRYING TO JUSTIFY IT.

IT IS A FACT.

BUT -- >> WHAT ADVICE COULD YOU GIVE SOMEBODY IT IS A PREDETERMINED FACT THAT UNDER STRESS PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BREAK?

WHAT IS YOUR ADVICE TO SOMEBODY WHO FINDS THEMSELVES UNDER STRESS?

>> YOU HAVE TO FIND OURSELVES WITH PEOPLE WHO HOLD YOU ACCOUNTABLE.

IF YOU HAVE THOSE PEOPLE, YOU ARE ONLY AS INTELLIGENCE AS THE FIVE PEOPLE YOU HANG WITH.

YOU WANT FIVE PEOPLE AROUND YOU THAT ARE MORE ETHICAL, AND MORE INTELLIGENT.

YOU WANT TO USE THEM.

WHEN I FIRST STARTED AND A LOT OF MY SUCCESS WAS DRIVEN BY BANKING LAWS.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.

WE HAD WOMEN AND MINORITIES ON OUR BOARD 30 YEARS AGO WHEN NO ONE ELSE TALKED LIKE THAT.

THOSE ARE GOOD THINGS.

WHEN YOU GET TO THE END AND YOU MENTIONED POLITICIANS, I AM PICKING MY FRIENDS.

I DON'T WANT BILL TO LOOK BECAUSE HE IS CRITICAL.

BUT I HAVE KNOWN WENDY FOR 30 YEARS.

SHE MAY NOT LOOK AS HARD.

THOSE ARE YOUR DECISIONS.

WHEN I HAD MY BACK AGAINST THE WALL, LIKE IN THE PLANE SITUATION, I MADE DECISIONS AS YOU ARE MAKING THEM, YOU THINK THIS ONE WON'T GET THEM THERE.

IN THEIR INDIVIDUAL NATURE THEY WON'T.

I WENT WAY OVER THERE.

AS YOU STATED IN THE NUMBERS.

>> WHAT IS YOUR TARGET AUDIENCE, MR. HAYES?

>> THE ENTREPRENEURIAL MARKET.

THAT'S WHERE MOST MEN AND WOMEN ARE BY THEMSELVES OR ONE OR TWO OF THEM.

IN THE LARGE CORPORATE WORLD, SIT IS THE ETHICS PROBLEM.

IS DAY DOESN'T GO BY WHERE THERE IS SOMETHING THAT IS THERE.

I WAS IN PRISON AND READ ABOUT A TAX FRAUD.

IT TOOK DOWN DOZENS OF PEOPLE FOR HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN TAXES.

YOU SIT THERE AND LOOK AT THAT, THAT IS A BIG COMPANY THING.

IT IS THE SMALL END AND THE LARGE END.

IT IS NOT THE MIDDLE.

IT IS A DIFFERENT WORLD.

YOU DON'T SPEND MONEY FOR THINGS LIKE THAT AND DON'T HAVE THOSE ISSUES.

IT IS THE TWO EXTREMES.

>> YOU ARE TALKING TO SOMEONE WHO IS ON THE VERGE TO MAKE THOSE BAD DECISIONS; WHAT WOULD YOU SAY?

>> THE CONSEQUENCES OF FAILURE IS FAR LESS THAN THE CONSEQUENCES OF DOING THE CRIME.

I HAD ALL OF THE SUCCESS AND THE SHEAR FACT THAT I WAS FAILING.

I COULDN'T DO IT.

IF I COULD REDO ANYTHING, AND I AM ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO WOULDN'T CHANGE ANYTHING IN LIFE BECAUSE I NEED TO COMMUNICATE THAT.

I WAS BETTER OFF FAILING.

>> WHAT ARE THE ONLY THINGS THAT MATTER?

YOUR CHILDREN?

>> MY CHILDREN.

THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS.

>> WHEN PEOPLE GET OUT OF FEDERAL PRISON, THE HARD THING IS TRYING TO FIND A JOB AFTERWARDS.

THEY HAVE HAD TO DO SOMETHING ENTREPRENEURIAL BECAUSE NO ONE WILL HIRE THEM.

WHAT DID YOU FIND?

YOU HAD A VERY SUCCESSFUL CAREER BEFORE YOU WENT OFF OF THE RAILS.

HAVE EMPLOYERS ARE WILLING TO TALK TO YOU?

>> I AM SMILING.

WHEN YOU READ IN THE BOOK AND I WILL SAY THE NAME BECAUSE I'M BLUNT.

I INTERVIEWED AT BJC TO MAKE BEDS.

I COULD DO THAT 2-9 AND I AM A MORNING PERSON.

NO ONE WOULD CALL ME BACK AFTER I WENT TO HR.

OBVIOUSLY, BECAUSE -- YOU CAN'T MAKE A BED IN THE HOSPITAL.

I WENT TOSNN.

I HAD HORRIBLE HEALTH ISSUES AND I TRIED TO DIE.

I DIDN'T GET OUT OF BEDS FOR WEEKS AND WEEKS.

THEY HAD A JOB TAKING BODIES TO THE MORGUE.

IT DIDN'T BOTHER ME.

THEIR HR PEOPLE CALLED ME BACK AND WE CAN'T HAVE YOU HERE BECAUSE IT IS A FELON.

THE SADDEST PART OF PRISON IS ABOUT REHAB, MAKING -- GIVING YOU A CHANCE.

I TAUGHT GED TO MEN 40 AND 50 YEARS OLD.

THEY NEVER GOT A JOB.

NEVER GOT A W-2.

I WENT THROUGH A PROGRAM AND CALLED -- IT SHOULD BE TAUGHT IN EVERY ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS.

>> WE ARE OUT OF TIME.

WE APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE TONIGHT.

THE BOOK "THE GRAY CHOICE".

THE AUTHOR IS SHAUN HAYES.

THE BOOK IS AVAILABLE ON AMAZON.

AGAIN, WE THANK YOU.

AND ANY OTHER QUESTIONS WILL BE HAVE TO BE ANSWERED ON THE SPEAKER CIRCUIT.

>> THANKS FOR WATCHING DONNYBROOK YOUR TURN, AND NEXT UP.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.